“If you want to truly have an impact in the world, you can’t be stressed out and work on yourself down to the bone every time. That’s not a good model.” -Tom Matzen


Did you know? The #1 fear of entrepreneurs is NOT fear of failure but fear of success! Yes. Entrepreneurs often fall to that trap but there is a way to turn that around. Art and Tom Matzen, international best-selling author and speaker, talk about the must-learn skills to speed up success. Tom shares his 36 years of learned lessons on managing rejections, the core of what living should be, how to earn more with less work, being a servant leader, and more! Tune in and learn how you can get a $10,000 scholarship for Tom’s, The Game-Changer Program! 


Listen to the podcast here:


01:17 36 Years of Learning Lessons
04:20 Managing Expectations Equals Successful Entrepreneurship
13:27 Rejection Can Be Your Friend
20:12 2 Must-Learn Skills For Faster Success
23:25 #1 Fear of Entrepreneurs
29:58 Earn More, Work Less  
38:28 Programs vs Courses
47:57 Servant Leadership
50:22 3 Types of People: Sharks, Carps, and Dolphins
55:28 Wisdom vs Perspective


How can you exponentially make more money by working significantly fewer hours? Tune in as @myexpectation and @ravingfans4life reveals the secret of world-changing leaders. #expectationtherapy #epiphanies #podcast #worklessearnmore… Share on X








“Life as an entrepreneur is about how far you fall when you fall and how quickly you turn around.” -Tom Matzen

“We love getting pushed back because we can overcome that… What we don’t love is being stuck.”  -Tom Matzen

“If you want to truly have an impact in the world, you can’t be stressed out and work on yourself down to the bone every time. That’s not a good model.” -Tom Matzen

“A servant leader is focused on you and your results, rather than what they’re getting from you as compensation.” -Tom Matzen

“If you’ve got wisdom or knowledge or experience that can make a difference to other people, you got a moral obligation to reach them.”  -Tom Matzen

“You ought to do good and make money at the same time.” -Tom Matzen

“Entrepreneurs have wrecked the planet. And entrepreneurs are the ones to fix that.” -Tom Matzen

“Money is just a tool for doing good to others.” -Tom Matzen

“Anything that’s in your head and stays there is merely a thought.” -Art Costello

“Perspective is the knowledge and the wisdom to know what to do in what order. Knowledge alone isn’t going to get you anywhere. You also need to sort it out.” -Tom Matzen


Meet Tom:

Tom Matzen is an International Best-Selling Author of two books. Tom has shared his message to more than 100,000 entrepreneurs on four continents and hundreds of TV, radio, and print podcast interviews. He now leads an emerging global enterprise with a mission to empower 10,000 authority entrepreneurs to build global movements and seven and eight-figure businesses over the next five years.  



Art Costello: Welcome to the Shower Epiphanies Podcast, today. Tom Matzen is our guest. I believe he’s coming from British Vancouver, Columbia, and he is an international bestselling author of two books. Thomas shared his message to more than a 100,000 entrepreneurs on 4 continents, and then hundreds of TV radio on Print Podcast interviews. He now leads an emerging global enterprise with a mission to empower 10,000 authority entrepreneurs to build global movements and seven and eight figure businesses over the next five years.

Welcome to the show, Tom, it is a pleasure to have you here. Could you start out by telling us your story?

Tom Matzen: Absolutely, Art. Thank you for the invitation, so glad to be here. It is rainy here in Vancouver, so it’s nice to share some rain with you in Austin today. You don’t get as much as we do. We’re in the tropical rain forest up here, temperate rainforest so we’re used to this. So glad though, thank you for making time. Thanks to everyone for tuning in. My journey has been an entrepreneur for 36 years now. 36 years, 82 businesses, made and lost millions along the way, seven of them to seven, eight figures and beyond. I like to say I’ve lost more money and learn more lessons in my business career than most people do in a lifetime. So hopefully, we’ll get into some of those today too, because those are all, you know, I earned the stripes on those Art. I earned the stripes on those.

Art Costello: That’s great though, because what I really appreciate in that is that you mentioned that you, it was all a learning lesson because that’s what life is all about. It’s about learning.

Tom Matzen: Totally.

Art Costello: Can’t wait to hear some of the stories. We have a lot in common. I only owned two businesses my entire life, and I managed to lose millions and make millions.

Tom Matzen: Well, the more I did this, the more I realized that life of an entrepreneur is about how far you fall when you fall, and how quickly you turn it around. I used to think it was about eliminating those ups and downs, just going straight line. And I realized, no, that’s not the real world of being an entrepreneur. The real world is ups and downs, ups and downs, and hopefully you get wiser, you get smarter, you listen more, you learn more. And the downs are shorter and the bounce backs are quicker. But probably 10 years ago when I embraced that concept of, yeah, it’s part of the deal, like get used to it. Get used to it, it’s part of the deal. The journey since then has been so much more fun because now it’s a game to me. When the downs come, it’s just a game. It’s like, okay, great. Let’s go. And now I can deal now, down could be three hours. And that would normally have been like three weeks for me before, so I love it.

“Life as an entrepreneur is about how far you fall when you fall and how quickly you turn around.” -Tom Matzen Share on X

Art Costello: This was pretty early on in your story of how this all went about, but I think it’s relevant. How much do you think learning to master your expectations really helped you rebound out of this? When you learn, I mean, my big theory is that we have been expectant from day one when we’re born, we expect, and it’s gone on from eons and eons of time. And once we learn how to expect, it changes the whole trajectory of our life. I learned it at nine years old because I was just, I had a tough childhood, and I had to learn everything on my own so I had to learn how to rebound. I did that by not living to the expectations of others, but living to my own expectations. And it changed the trajectory of my life. And that’s what my research has been for years, how expectations affect us. And for entrepreneurs, if they cannot learn to expect properly, it becomes very hard in it. It’ll drive you down. And I found in my business that that was a big part of my being able to handle it all. And the experience, any thoughts on that?

Tom Matzen: Yeah, very much. It’s an awesome question, I love it. I was thinking back when you, as you were phrasing, so when did that start to kick in? And I think it came for me in waves. It wasn’t one of those epiphany moment type things. I wish it would have been instantly learned, but I think it took waves. The first wave early on in my business career, I worked for Dale Carnegie, Dale Carnegie Training, and I sold, and I was an instructor, and I was fortunate to be mentored from some of the best trainers in North America at the time in that organization. And I learned that stretching your comfort zone was the key to happiness, for me, anyhow. I’m not sure that I would say that’s the key to happiness for everyone, but I do know this to be true. If you stretch your comfort zone and you’ve got a support system around you when you’re doing it, your life is filled with joy and passion. For sure. You may not accomplish the goals, co’z stretching your comfort zone isn’t necessarily accomplishing goals, right? If you’re going to bungee jump or something that may or may not get you anywhere closer to your goal, but it’s stretching your comfort zone for most people, for sure. As an entrepreneur though, it was the same thing. I learned to stretch my comfort zone, and I remember distinctly what happened. I had moved from a small town in what you guys call the Midwest, it was the Prairie’s for us in Canada. Your listeners will tell, I am bilingual, I speak Canadian and American. We all have our gifts, we all have our gifts.

I moved to Calgary, and I was with Dale Carnegie. In that job, I was selling and it was 100% commission, brand new city, big city compared to where I grew up. And my boss took me downtown and he pointed up to the big skyline in Calgary, he got a big, beautiful skyline, similar to the parts of Dallas Fort Worth. And he pointed up and said: “Okay, see those four towers?” I go: “Yeah.” “That’s your market, go.” And that was the training program. I’m like: “What?” He goes: “Oh, yeah, you’ll figure it out. Just go.” And over the next three years, 70% of my income came from those four towers. I learned to cold call. I learned to stretch my comfort zone like crazy, co’z cold calling. I don’t think any sane person likes cold calls. I think you gotta be a little insane to like cold calling co’z it’s filled with rejection. And this particular set of towers had signs on all the doors, “NO SOLICITING,” “NO SOLICITING.” I’m like, well, he said to go talk on every person and I’m like, no soliciting. So my young 23 year old brain said, okay, I got it. I went in and the opening line she goes: “Did you see the sign?” I go: “Yeah.” She said: “Well, no soliciting.” I said: “I’m not a solicitor. I’m not a lawyer. No, I’m here to help grow your business.” And now they would laugh or they’d kick me out, one of the two. But I learned to stretch my comfort zone way beyond my ability. And there was one other part to it that I’ll never forget back then, Lee Iacocca was the God of business, right? You’ve earned your silver hair. You remember Lee Iacocca, right?

Art Costello: Oh, yes.

Tom Matzen: Third Chrysler around a big rescue story, created the Mustang before that, I mean, an icon in the automotive industry. Well, it turns out that when he turned Chrysler around, the first thing he did was put a hundred top management through Dale Carnegie. And we had a letter, it was a photocopy, of a photocopy, of a photocopy that said, “The best thing I ever did was put my a hundred executives through Dale Carnegie to save Chrysler,” Lee Iacocca. And I would walk into an office, I would cold call the CEO, the top dog, here at 23 years old, wet behind the ears but super enthusiastic. I’d walk in and I got seven minutes co’z my boss taught me and asked for seven minutes. I remember asking him one time: “Why seven?” He said: “Because no one asks for seven.” So he said, seven minutes. And I would say: “I will need all seven minutes, sir. I promise. I’ve just got a couple of questions and if I can’t help you, I won’t take up any more time. But if I can, we might talk a bit more. Is that fair enough?” “Yes, sir.” “Okay, great. What do you think of Lee Iacocca?” “Oh, Lee Iacocca, he’s awesome. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” I’d say: “Yeah, I agree. Here’s what he says about our product.” And I put the letter out, and they would read it, and I was it was this crazy experience like there’s no way. I should be talking to that level executive, but I learned to stretch my comfort zone. So that was the first wave of managing expectations because what I realized was my expectations were entirely framed by how much I stretched my comfort zone. It was the first time I learned to make multiple thousands of dollars in one month. It was the first time I learned to make $10,000 in one month. It was the first time I learned to make 10,000 in one sale. Because when I got more confident and I understood what I was doing, I wouldn’t sell the CEO, I would sell the CEO and his senior management team because that’s what Lee Iacocca did. He was like, well, why wouldn’t you? You just told me he’s brilliant. So why wouldn’t you do what he did? Come on, let’s go. So that was the first real big shift in my ability to manage expectations.

And then the second one came from a catastrophic failure of a business. I was still living in Calgary, and everything collapsed around me, and I lost everything I had, and I filed for bankruptcy for a $400 phone bill, that was delinquent. And there were a bunch of others. Like it was, to me, it was the entire world. Now the entire filing of that bankruptcy was like a bad week for me today, but then it was my whole world. And what I realized very quickly was that I am not my business. It is not my business. And I wouldn’t say very quickly, it probably took me three months of beating up on myself, what a fool you are? And how could you do this? And pointing fingers. I had two other partners, but I was the one who got us all into it so it was my fault. That’s the way I took it. I really blame myself hard. So it was a series of learnings for me. And now, I actually think our game, whether we’re entrepreneurs or not, our game is to figure out our highest and best calling and do it. And if it happens to be being an entrepreneur, then God bless you. Get into it, let’s go because the world needs, I mean, business people have messed up the planet. That’s pretty clear. Business people are going to be the ones to fix it. They’re the ones to fix it. I mean, just about everything valuable in our life was created by an entrepreneur somewhere at some point.

Art Costello: Absolutely.

Tom Matzen: Here we are having a conversation thousands of miles apart, two different countries completely, and we’re just talking like we’re beside each other. Which is such an incredible technology. We take it for granted now. You’re on zoom, I’m on zoom, it’s like normal. In fact, if it’s not like this, we are like, what’s going on? That’s how much things have changed co’z some guy said, you know what? We should be able to talk to each other. First It was the phone, and then it was video, and who knows 10 years from now, 20 years from now, we might just jump into a teleport booth like the shows Dallas we will.

Art Costello: Maybe.

Tom Matzen: And show up, and I’ll come down to Austin, we’ll have some great steaks. Would that be needed if you could have every person you interview on your podcast and literally teleport to your home studio? I think that’d be so cool.

Art Costello: It would be cool. I have a belief that one of my mantras is I believe in the possibility of everything. Everything becomes possible. So if you think that we can teleport into my office, then I believe that in 10 years, we may be able to teleport to my office.

Tom Matzen: And now the big name speakers, the really big [inaudible], they’ll do a teleported talk. Have you seen this? Where they’re broadcasting a virtual reality, full version of them on a stage. I’ve only seen it on camera, I haven’t seen it live yet, but it’s about $60,000 an hour to do it, the cost apparently. So it’s not reachable for most people at this point, but you know? If you just apply Moore’s law, be a buck and a half in a couple of weeks. Who knows? And if you can virtually do that, then we go to the next level where we’re doing it. I think it’d be pretty cool.

Art Costello: I wanted to go back on something and bring up a little bit of my background because I was very interested when you said it. When I was seven years old, do you remember the comic books that came out, there were all kinds of different comic books and then the back of them had an ad that you could sell Christmas cards in July.

Tom Matzen: I remember the ads in the back of the comic books. I don’t remember that ad. That’s cool.

Art Costello: I asked my parents for a loan so I could order Christmas cards in July, and that’s how I got my sales start. At seven years old, I went door to door.

Tom Matzen: Oh, my word.

Art Costello: We were living in New Milford, New Jersey at the time, and I would go to all the big apartment complexes, and I would go door to door, knocking on all the doors and ask to buy Christmas cards in July. I sold a ton.

Tom Matzen: I bet a kid, seven year old knocking on the door so how could they say, no?

Art Costello: Well, listen to what happened. One day, I knocked on the door and a big burly man answered the door and he said: “What do you want?”

Tom Matzen: So a standard New Jersey greeting, in other words, yeah.

Art Costello: Anyway, he says to me: “What do you want?” And I said: “I’m selling Christmas cards.” He said: “In July.” And I said: “Yeah, do you want some? He looked down at me and he said: “I’ll take all you got.” And I probably had like four or five boxes in my cart that I carried around and he bought them all, and I started to walk away and he said: “Hey, come back here. Do you know who I am?” And I said: “No, I haven’t got a clue.” Not in those words, but I said: “No, sir, I don’t know who you are.” And he said: “I’m the district manager for the Newark Star-Ledger.” Which was the big newspaper that we had there. And he said: “How would you like a newspaper route?” And I said: “That’s always what I’ve wanted.” And he said: “You’re seven, but we’re not supposed to have seven year old but I’m going to give you. If you’ll take this, you go home and talk to your mom and dad. I’m going to give you 10 customers. I want to see what you can do.” So I went home, talked to my mom and dad. They said: “Absolutely.” One year later, I had 165 customers. I hired my older brother to help deliver the papers every day.

Tom Matzen: Ah, Oh, my word, that’s awesome.

Art Costello: And I learned selling those Christmas cards in that newspaper group. I learned about rejection and how to handle it. And I’m wondering now that we’ve talked about this, that if my nine year old experience was not predicted by my abilities as a nine year old to handle the problems I had from my experience of selling those cards and papers and dealing with the rejection because I realized that it didn’t matter what anyone else thought of me, that I was in control of my destiny and that it has permeated my life. I’m 73 now, it has permeated my life all the way.

Tom Matzen: I actually think that’s such a key thing that so many people have no appreciation for unless they’ve been through it. I mean, I actually think it should be mandatory that kids sell something. It doesn’t have to be Christmas cards or paper routes, it could be chocolates or whatever. For me, it was chocolate covered almonds for the local bowling teams, and that’s where I got my first taste of massive rejection and success. Because if you hustle, you could succeed, especially as a kid. All you needed was enthusiasm because people would buy just because you’re a cute kid, like, Oh, yeah, I give you some cards. Come on. But you also got lots of rejection. And it’s fascinating when I look today and people are always slamming the generation, the next generation, Oh, they’re lazy, they’re this. Every generation has done it, right? Our parents did it, our generation, then it’s the Gen X, now it’s the Millennials, and the gen Y. There’s always this sort of labeling going on. But the one part that I think is actually true across the young generation now, is kids aren’t set up to go sell anywhere Where my son is 11 and he learned to play piano early on, he started at three, and then he got to be, well, he loved it. He got to be really good at it. And from the time he was seven, they call it busking in Canada, which I don’t know if you know that term, but it basically means sitting on the corner playing music and getting some coins in your buckets. And except with music, it sounds nicer, it’s busking. It sounds like a real career and supposed to panhandle. Well, he learned to busk and he would, as a nine and 10 year old, he’d make $200 in a couple of hours at a local market.

Art Costello: Wow.

Tom Matzen: I mean, literally 200. And he had been taught properly by his mom, not by me, Lord knows, to put so much for long term savings, so much for projects, so much for sharing and so on. He had five buckets and he only got to spend 20%, the other were buckets we’re all set aside. And it was so inspiring because he’d be like: “Daddy, daddy, daddy. I made $40.” I go: “What do you mean? You did a lot more?” He said: “Well, no, that’s 20% of my buckets.” He didn’t even count the other money that he made. That’s how good he was at savings and doing that, which God blessed my wife, she taught him that well. But he learned rejection. He learned to communicate non-verbally, because when you’re playing music, you can’t talk to people. You’re playing music, right. So he had to communicate non-verbally and then he would talk to them in between. And it was such a great thing. And most kids nowadays, you shake their hand and it’s like a wet fish. They don’t even make eye contact.

Art Costello: Yeah. The other part of the endurance thing that I’m thinking about is we know of all these internet millionaires, these young kids that go out and they create these websites, these programs and funnels and do all this stuff, they don’t even have human contact.

Tom Matzen: No.

Art Costello: They play a pure numbers game. They play, if I hit my target market and I have 9,000 people, 2% of them are going to buy and all other things, they don’t experience what we experienced going door to door and having somebody look at you in the eye and say, no. Or the joy of having somebody look you in the eye and say, I’d love to buy your goods.

Tom Matzen: If you think there’s two skills that are the most important for kids, in my opinion, one is learning to communicate your story. I don’t like using the word SELL because the stereotypical sell is not what we’re talking about, but that’s one. And then the other is just learning to hustle. I was fortunate that I worked at McDonald’s for my first job, I was 16 years old, and boy, if you survived McDonald’s, you learned to hustle. You learned to clean as you go, you learn to smile. Jim Rowan used to say, his numbers were like: “You work at McDonald’s, I pay 315 an hour. You smile and whistle, 325.” And he was always like, you don’t need a minimum wage raising, it’s a ladder, it’s a ladder. I would listen to these recordings of Jim and like, I could hear and put my own voice in it. Like, Tom, it’s a ladder. You don’t need minimum wage increases, it’s a ladder. Smile and hustle, you get 10 cents more. And they don’t know that, they don’t know that. It’s interesting. If you do start a business when you’re young, you learn that, because you got to. The tech guys, as soon as they start to scale, then they got to raise capital, then they got to recruit sponsors or they got to do these. And all of a sudden they’re like, Oh. And they either learn it, or they bring someone in to partner with them. So I think in some ways, it corrects itself as they get going. But the technology centric businesses are much tougher, I agree.

Art Costello: Yeah. It’s just how the world changes and evolves. We’re constantly evolving since, and that’s why I think expectations are so important because I actually believe that there’s a genetic component to expectations that we have a gene.

Tom Matzen: Genetic component, what do you mean?

Art Costello: Well, I think that genetically, we have a propensity to either have, this is the way that I phrase it. I believe that when we were created, whether you believe in God or whatever your beliefs are, we were implanted with a seed of expectation. I believe that that’s the genetic component. And then we develop, we either look at things through the two lenses of expectations, either faith or fear. Faith not only being religious, but faith as a faith in a coach and a parent. But the greatest faith is faith in yourself because God gave us that tool of expectation, and he wants us to be the most successful, the best version of ourselves that we can be because he made us in his light.

Tom Matzen: I love that. I often hear that described as glass half full, glass half empty, but this is a much nicer way to describe it. Faith is the positive seizing the future, seizing destiny. I love that. And then fear, you’re right. I mean, Tony Robbins, Moving-Away, Moving-Towards, Moving-Away, Moving-Towards. And fears a big motivator for sure, and some people are just wired that way.

Art Costello: Yeah. But fear for the general population is a stop, it stops everything. The fear of failure, the fear of having to face somebody that, you know, there’s so many variations of fear as many as there is faith.

Tom Matzen: Number one fear for entrepreneurs, I’ve done several dozen businesses, I’ve helped thousands of people start their own businesses over the years now. Number one fear for entrepreneurs is not fear of failure, you’ll see if you can relate to this. It’s fear of success.

Art Costello: Wow.

Tom Matzen: It’s sabotaging their path when it starts to happen. It’s like, I’m doing this and now I’m getting this, I’m getting this, or I’m going to stop doing that. It’s insidious, it’s sneaky, it’s a bugger and it catches people out and they go, what happened there? You were just crushing it. Oh, yeah. Well, I had a bad partner, or had this happen, or this happened, or this happened and fear of success sneaks up. So I actually think we spent a lot of time with our clients talking about how to make sure fear of success doesn’t get in your way.

Art Costello: You know what I have found out, when you learn to handle your expectation, when you learn to manage your expectations, it breeds such a degree of self confidence and you cannot point a finger at anyone else. You can’t say your partner did this, you did that. When you live to your own expectations and you own them, and you learn to own them, you can point it at anybody else. That has dictated my life. You’ll never hear me pointing to other people and blaming them because my dad used to say: “If you point your finger, you got three pointing right back at ya.” But I think what I’ve learned with the power of expectation is, once you learn how to manage them, all of that fear goes away because you start to build self confidence and self reliance, and it’s about self care. You begin to care for yourself more and not in a selfish way, but in a way that is beneficial to all those people around you. And you can change the culture of any business in this world by changing their expectations and having their staff and everything learned how to manage their expectations. Think of all the anxiety and stress, where does it come from? Unmet expectations. The husband and wife argue because the wife doesn’t like when the husband goes out, and watches football on Sunday, and drinks beer and all that kind of stuff and doesn’t pay attention to her. Unmet expectations. She tells him, please, I want you to spend time with me. He continues to do what he does. Unmet expectation. Your kids don’t do exactly what you want them to do, you get frustrated with them, then the unmet expectations cause anxiety and stress. I actually believe that almost 90% of all anxiety and stress is related to unmet expectations.

Tom Matzen: I believe that, yeah, I can totally see that. I can see that because it creates this loop. Especially if you’re starting to blame yourself for that unmet expectation, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy because now you’re down on yourself. There’s a good friend of mine who lives in Austin, Alex Charfen, have you ever met Alex?

Art Costello: No, haven’t met him.

Tom Matzen: I consider him to be like the next Michael Gerber, one of these leading thought leaders in the world of entrepreneurship. In fact, he actually has something he’s created called The Entrepreneurial Personality Type, where he’s literally studied the wild wacky world of entrepreneurs for centuries and looked at the common characteristics. And one of them is that entrepreneurs thrive with momentum, no surprise. We love momentum, we love going forward, we also love getting pushed back because we can overcome that. That’s another form of momentum. What we DON’T love is being stuck. It’s the worst possible thing for an entrepreneur when you’re stuck. And then what happens is your pressure and noise builds, and the pressure and noise builds inside your head, literally, co’z you’re blaming, you’re like, wow, I can’t believe I’m stuck. I can’t believe that I’m stuck, or worse. I can’t believe I’m stuck, again. Tom, you’re such a loser. That little dialogue, your mind frame starts to play around in these loops. And what happens? Well, guess why your pressure noise goes up even higher, and now your expectations are met or not being that even more. So yeah, I actually, I think that’s super profound. And in a way I think about my belief of the purpose of life, the meaning of life is to find your highest and best calling and the limit. And in the finding of your highest and best calling is where that’s so dangerous. Very, very dangerous, right? Because there’s not just our expectations, mom and dad, societal, spouses. Today, people can pretty much do a lot more than they could 20 or 50 years ago and still make a living if they want, but they’re still our societal expectations put on us all the time.

“We love getting pushed back because we can overcome that… What we don't love is being stuck.” -Tom Matzen Share on X

Art Costello: Yep. And I talk a lot about all the different types of, there’s relationship expectations, there’s societal, there’s scholastic expectations, there’s business expectations. One of the greatest expectations corporations have is meeting their financial expectations. And when they don’t meet them, what happens? The stock market goes down. Their stock goes down and all those things happen. What people don’t understand is that our expectations play such an important role in how we live our life.

Tom Matzen: And it’s interesting because I’m looking at this phase of my business career, where we take thought leaders and authority entrepreneurs, and we help them package their wisdom and knowledge and sell it through what we call high ticket programs. They’re making quarter million, half million, a million a year working 10, 15 hours a week. It’s this sort of too good to be true combination. But how can you make exponentially more money by working significantly less hours? So a big part of our work is to identify these authorities and then show them the 60 hour work week idea is the wrong model. It’s just the wrong model. If you want to truly have impact in the world, you can’t be stressed out and work on yourself down to the bone every time, that’s not a good model. That centers around shifting their expectations on what a business is about. Is it possible to do good and make money? For example, that’s one of our big tenants. We believe you can do good and make money at the same time. In fact, we actually believe you have a moral obligation to do good and make money at the same time. It’s not just a principle of business, it’s a fundamental core of how you should live your life.

“If you want to truly have an impact in the world, you can't be stressed out and work on yourself down to the bone every time. That's not a good model.” -Tom Matzen Share on X

Art Costello: See, that becomes a core business expectation.

Tom Matzen: Yes. And as a result, you attract people who go, okay, I’d like to do good and make money. So they buy into it and this becomes a self fulfilling, positive prophecy in this case, because people are like, Oh, you can do good and make money, really? How’s that possible? At some point we’ll talk about it, but we give away these scholarships now of our main high ticket program for entrepreneurs, and I just had a mastermind this morning where the leaders are like: “You’re giving away what?” I go: “Giving away $10 million worth of scholarships this year.” They go: “And there’s a $10,000 program, a real program?” I go,: “Yeah, it’s our most popular program. That’s why we’re doing it.” He goes: “That’s like a thousand people.” I said: “Exactly. Good math. It’s exactly a thousand people.” And he goes: “Well, how can you possibly do that? What’s the business model for that?” And I go: “The business model takes care of itself really, really well, or we’re doing it because we want to change the world in this area.” And it was this fascinating conversation because this guy has made hundreds of millions of dollars. The guy leading the Mastermind, super brilliant direct marketer, one of the top five guys in the planet in his field but he was like, at first, he was just stuck in the concept. How could you possibly give away something that valuable and make money? And he understands the law of reciprocity. He uses it in his direct mail copywriting. He’s done over 2 billion direct mail pieces, Art, this guy. So he uses the law of reciprocity as a fundamental tenet of how he lives his life. And I actually said to him co’z he still wasn’t getting it. I said: “Well, Brian, you remember how you agreed to be interviewed for my summit last year?” “Yeah.” “What did you get out of doing that summit? What did I tell you? You’re going to get, and what did you get?” “You told me I wasn’t gonna get much and I didn’t get much.” I said: “Exactly, you were helping me. Did I pay you for that?” “No.” “Should I have paid you?” “No.” He got it. He lives it, but he didn’t see it applying in other areas. And I think that’s part of the reason why podcasts and shows like you’re doing are so important because the challenge, your belief systems, I think any good ones will challenge your belief system to say, Hey, have you considered this? Have you thought about how expectations are serving you as an entrepreneur? Or are they disempowering you? Because based on what you’re telling me, it could be either.

Art Costello: It can be either.

Tom Matzen: I love it.

Art Costello: Yeah. And if more businesses would set expectations instead of goals for their business, see, goals people, if you don’t attain them, nothing really happens. If you don’t reach a goal, you just go back and redraw the program and try to figure out how to get there. But when it comes to expectations, there is something about them that isn’t so internal in human beings. If I tell you, golly, Tom, I’m really disappointed in you because you didn’t meet my goals. Or if I say to you, Tom, I’m really disappointed because you’ve failed to meet my expectations. It hits your core. But I don’t want something that I really don’t like saying. Because I believe that once you set your core expectations, and I’ll tell you what my three are and then you can tell me what your three’s.

Tom Matzen: Okay.

Art Costello: Mine is integrity, love and compassion, those are my three.

Tom Matzen: They’re your expectations?

Art Costello: My core expectations.

Tom Matzen: Core expectations. So translate integrity as a core expectation for me.

Art Costello: My integrity is non-negotiable. It is me. It is who I am. It’s how I identify and how I live my life. I do that the same with love, I love people, I love to be around them, I love animals, I love just about it. Anything that is out there, flowers, I love flowers. And my compassion is for anybody who is willing to learn. My compassion, but those are all core. Core things, they’re non negotiable and they are set in stone. If every business set up their core expectations for what mission statements and all these things, I believe in keeping things simple because the simpler it is, the better people can understand it, and buy into it and believe in it. So if a corporation had three core expectations, this is what every employee in my company is going to see every day from me as the leader of this company. And when I had my company, my guys saw integrity, love and compassion from me. I was very understanding when things, how hard they were, I’ve done it all, I had actually built my business starting out by myself for the first five years. I knew everything about it so I knew the difficulties. But if companies would just do that, like I said, there’s something about goals that we just fluff it off. But when you start talking about expectations, it has a deeper meaning to it. And there’s a fine line between goals, and expectations, and all of the different results and all kinds of different things.

Tom Matzen: Yeah, but if I’m hearing you correctly, what you’re saying is this is a way to define what I would call the rules of the game. The rules of the game of life that you’re playing here are three set rules, right? You might change what you do, you might change where you do it, you might change how you do it, but you’re not going to change those three.

Art Costello: That’s right, they are non negotiable.

Tom Matzen: Love it.

Art Costello: Once you do that, it doesn’t only affect your business, but it affects everything. Every relationship that you have, your family, your friends, all of that. I’ve worked with people and just simply by identifying what their core expectations are, have seen them turn their lives and businesses around incredibly quickly because it’s so simple.

Tom Matzen: I love it.

Art Costello: It’s very interesting how they all work.

Tom Matzen: Love it. Do you teach this to people? You should, if you don’t.

Art Costello: Yeah. I have a course, an online course that I do.

Tom Matzen: You should create a high ticket program around it. You should actually get people immersed in this. Conversation for another day, but get you a scholarship to our training on that because, really, the thing about courses that are challenging and this is where rubber meets the road in the world of online training. Tony Robbins has 97% of the people that buy his course don’t complete it, 97%. And he’s one of the top motivational trainers in the world. And his team, big broad, well-financed, 97% don’t complete it.

Art Costello: Statistics is 13%, only 13% completed.

Tom Matzen: Well, this is his data from his own students so mid 13 might be industry-wide. I can tell you it’s below 20, and here’s my pet peeve about that and why I’m so into programs versus courses. If you went to a restaurant, we were talking about Austin before we started recording in the green room, I have my sushi place that I went there that I love, can you imagine going to a good restaurant and 87% of the time not getting a meal, 13% of the time you get a meal, and especially if you paid for it in advance, what would happen to the restaurant tour, Art?

Art Costello: He’d be gone.

“If you've got wisdom or knowledge or experience that can make a difference to other people, you got a moral obligation to reach them.” -Tom Matzen Share on X

Tom Matzen: They’d lock them up. He would literally lock that person up for fraud. There’s no way they would exist. And yet in the online marketing world we’re all like, Oh, yeah, that’s normal. That’s normal. You know what we call that, we call it the entrepreneur education — co’z there’s an entire industry that just wants to sell you stuff, and that’s the polite word for it, whether or not you use it. I know you’re not coming from that place because it’s genuine, it’s evident coming through, but your compassion and love, plus with integrity, right? You don’t want to sell something people aren’t going to be able to use. So what we’ve figured out just the last few years is that you need to build skills, accountability and mentorship to go with that course. And that’s what we call a program. So you have checks and balances, you have support, you have accountability partners, success partners, you have a mastermind so that they can share and learn from each other and bounce ideas off of and have that community experience in the process. Then you can get my favorite example of this is Wendy Lipton-Dibner, she lives in Connecticut. Her success rate is 93%, 93%. We’re not there yet, we’re on the way. Our goal is to get us as good as Wendy, that’s our expectations. Be as good as Wendy, she would very happily earn that. But it’s true. I mean, that’s like crazy good results. We’re on our way, but we have a long way to go before we’re going to get there. But that’s the game we’re playing. I was trying to think of what I would call that, and that’s servant leadership as a core expectation, that’s how I would define it. Because a servant leader is focused on you and your results rather than what they’re getting from you as compensation. The idea is, if I focus on you and your results, I’ll get compensated either by you, or by others, or by life, or by karma. But if I focus on you and your results, that’s the game that I should be playing as an entrepreneur, as a thought leader. So there’s something for you to consider on your side. It also has an advantage, Art, of being far more lucrative. You can have more impact. you make more money so you can give back more to your causes that you care about, but you can also build a team to do all the stuff that you don’t want to do so that you can be focused on the stuff you love to do. And I think that’s one of the biggest things I’ve learned for people. Anyone listening in, if you’ve got wisdom, or knowledge, or experience that can make a difference to other people, you got a moral obligation to reach them. You should not keep your wisdom to yourself. If you’re the best kept secret in your field, shame on you. Like really, like you’ve got an obligation. There’s enough junk going on there in the world, Lord knows, we see it every day that the people that are doing good things, they need to get out there. They need to spread the word. They need to get out there and get people engaged. I think we actually have a moral obligation to do that. Does that make sense?

“A servant leader is focused on you and your results, rather than what they're getting from you as compensation.” -Tom Matzen Share on X

Art Costello: That makes perfect sense, and I’m glad you said it because I think we’ve been at this now for about 35, 40 minutes, and I wanted to make sure that we learned, that my audience learned what you do and how you do it, and what they can gain by it. And I think that that’s with a very good– Well, thank you for that. Because for me, I’m on a mission. My mission is to get 10,000 authority entrepreneurs to build seven and eight figure businesses. Not for what it’ll do for them and their bottom line, which is a lot, but for what they will do with their tribes, for what they will do with their tribes. My title is called “Chief Movement Maker,” because I realize now, I only want to play with one type of entrepreneur. It’s the entrepreneur that wants to make a legacy impact in the world. They want to make a lasting impact in the world and they’re going to do it. In the world I play with, I help entrepreneurs do that so they’re typically around making the world a better place, or saving money, or better life, or better relationships. So a measurable outcome is what we help them figure out. And part of what we’re doing this year as a company is we’ve decided, I mentioned earlier, we decided to literally give away a thousand scholarships for our most popular program. So if anyone’s listening in, if you’re an entrepreneur, or if you’re a thought leader, or if you’re the best kept secret in your field, you’re sick and tired of that, we’ll get the links to Art on the page down below and we will offer a scholarship. But right now, about 82% of the people applying are getting accepted so not everyone will get in, they have to fit the criteria, but we’re giving away an entire high ticket program with 12 calls a month actually, training, and material, and accountability, partners and templates so that you can create your own high ticket, high margin program. Most importantly, that guarantees results for your clients and you can change the world. You do that, one of those programs, we call it a “Game Changer Program,” “Game Changer Program Academy” that we’re actually giving away. An example, Art, the work that you’re doing, that’s powerful stuff. So if we could find a way, and I’m positive with our system we could, taking some of that work and packaging it up, and you might need to focus on certain audiences. For example, applying all that wisdom to entrepreneurs would have an exponential impact on their bottom line.

Art Costello: Absolutely, will.

Tom Matzen: So that work for entrepreneurs is a perfect high ticket program for you. Perfect high ticket program. And if you were to put that together and set that in place, it also has a couple of really cool advantages. When you said, core, what was the word you said? Expectations, core expectations. The first thing I wrote down was fun because it’s a core expectation of everything I do, and it’s also a super business strategy. And the other one I wrote down was simple affluence, SIMPLE AFFLUENCE. I actually think that’s the game entrepreneurs are playing in terms of scorecard. It’s not about money, it’s not about toys and trappings, but it is about affluence. It is about having a lifestyle where someone’s doing some good work and they come to you and you say, sure, how much do you need? Great. I love it. Here you go. Go, go, go, go. Well, thank you. Just go, have fun. To be able to do that, Alex Charfen’s wife, Katie, who actually runs his business. She’s the brains and the looks, sorry, Alex, you know that to be true. She has a saying, see if you like this one, Art, the saddest thing in the world is a broke philanthropist.

Art Costello: That is right.

Tom Matzen: Right? Co’z if you’re a philanthropist and you have no money, that’s sad. So our part of our mission is, the other principle I wrote down was, doing good and making money at the same time. I don’t know if it’s a core expectation, but it is a philosophy of ours that not only can you do that, you ought to do that. You ought to do good to make money at the same time. And it’s why, for example, we’re giving away scholarships to anyone that’s listening in today. If you’re still here, if you’re still tuning into us, you obviously are getting something out of this conversation. If you’ve got knowledge, authority, wisdom, and you want to package it up, or you want to help packaging it up, apply for whatever scholarships. Come in, come and join us on this journey. Entrepreneurs have wrecked the planet, I really believe that. And it’s entrepreneurs that are going to fix the planet. It’s not going to be governments, it’s not going to be legislation, it’s going to be entrepreneurs. And some will be faith driven entrepreneurs, and some will be non-faith driven entrepreneurs, but it’s going to be entrepreneurs. If you look at all the great impacts that are happening in the world, where we go, wow, isn’t that amazing? There’s an entrepreneur behind that somewhere. Right? If you look at all the things we value, and I think, for those of us that have figured out how to package that for people, we have an obligation to reach as many as we can, which is why my partner and I decided to give away $10 million scholarships this year. And that’s why we’re talking we’re in a podcast company and said, let us get out there, let’s get the word out, let us talk to people and spread the word. And so I really appreciate the time, I know we’re running up against the clock here, I don’t want to get your technical editors in trouble.

“You ought to do good and make money at the same time.” -Tom Matzen Share on X

Art Costello: The editors are getting in trouble with me.

Tom Matzen: Oh, that’s right, that’s right. They’ll come back at you. Yeah, exactly.

Art Costello: What I really loved about this is that you’ve talked about some of the things that are really important to me, which is legacy, giving back and all those because I’ve given far more away in my life than I’ve ever earned. I know it sounds crazy, but I’ve just always managed to help and give people it’s my heart. And I believe that one of your core expectations is service to others.

Tom Matzen: Yeah, I call that servant leadership, but yeah, absolutely, absolutely. In fact, if you go back to your model of faith and fear, my experience is people that come from the faith point of view give quite freely because they know there’s more. And then if you’re coming from the fear point of view, you’re like, well, but if I give that to you, I may not get any more for me. I don’t know. I don’t know. I gotta kinda hang on to that. I described that as the fear people, their model of the world is there’s an Apple pie and there’s only so many slices. And the faith people, we’ve got a pie making machine, let’s just make some more pies.

Art Costello: That makes such a difference in the world. I just read over the weekend, Michael Dell in the Dell Foundation, his wife gave $100 million to the University of Texas to help students with housing, books and tuition.

Tom Matzen: What?

Art Costello: Yeah, that Michael Dell gave $100 million to the University of Texas so more students can not have as much debt when they get out.

Tom Matzen: I love that.

Art Costello: That’s a servant’s heart right there.

Tom Matzen: Totally. And the good news for anyone tuning in is the way the tax laws are set up. You’re going to spend that money one way or the other so why give it to DC, or your state legislators? Why not give it to people like things you care about that you can control. I love that idea. I mean, the people say: “Well, rich people have an obligation to do that.” And I go: “Well, yeah. But we all have an obligation to do that. It’s not just rich people.” In fact, I firmly believe that if you do it from the beginning, you get rich. Not just financially, but emotionally, spiritually. I mean, look at your list, integrity, love, compassion. I don’t see cash flow on there. And yet, without cash flow, you can’t put those into practice. So you have a business strategy that can serve your higher calling. I love that. I think that’s the way it is. And I actually think there are two, well, there’s actually a book that was written in 93 called the Strategy of the Dolphin, have you ever seen that one, Art?

Art Costello: Haven’t seen that one.

Tom Matzen: You can’t get the physical copy of it any more, just eBooks, the Strategy of the Dolphin. It says, basically, there’s types of people, sharks, dolphins, and carp. See if you recognize this, the sharks are the killer be killed, it’s all about them. You recognize a few of those people, right? The carp are the people that every time you talk to them, they’re getting eaten by another shark. It’s like, well, did you get eaten last week? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was terrible. Why are you getting this week again? Oh, my gosh. Like every time you talk to them, another shark has eaten them. And then there’s the dolphins. The dolphins are the team players. It’s all about the pod, it’s all about fun and play. But in the wild, I don’t know if you know this or not, the only creature the shark fears is dolphins. The shark doesn’t fear man co’z it doesn’t know us, we’re not part of its element, but it fears dolphins. And the reason is, if a shark goes after a weak dolphin in the pod, all the rest of the dolphins gang up on the shark and beat it senseless until it can’t swim. And when it can’t swim, what happens to a shark? Game over, shark bait, right? Sharks have to keep moving so the gills are oxygenated or they die. And so sharks don’t mess with dolphins, and I love that metaphor. I love that metaphor because the dolphins are the ones that I want to play with. They’re the ones that care about legacy. It’s not just about trappings and stuff, it’s about legacy and impact. And I mean, what an amazing thing to give for, lowering tuition so people graduate with less student debt. That’s a heart thing, that’s not a head thing. He’d donate computer labs, or a building, or Texas sponsor the damn football team. If you are trying to be businessy about it, but clearly that’s a hard thing. I love that. That’s a great story. Thank you for letting me know.

“Entrepreneurs have wrecked the planet. And entrepreneurs are the ones to fix that.” -Tom Matzen Share on X

Art Costello: Yeah. He’s not the only one that does it. Bill Gates, their foundation does a lot of great work. There’s a lot of people out there that are doing great work.

Tom Matzen: Now, they’re challenging each other to do more and more great work, which is something I love. I love, I love, I love to see that because money is just a tool for doing good for others. It’s a measuring stick of the value you bring to the world, how much you bring in based on how much value you provide. But then once you’ve got it, it’s a tool to do good. It’s just a tool. Just like your time, we’re having a chat, we’re gonna affect some people’s lives. Is it going to be five people or 500 people, who knows? But we’re just giving, we’re sharing, and some people are gonna listen in and we’re gonna make some lives better. I love it. That’s a very cool journey.

“Money is just a tool for doing good to others.” -Tom Matzen Share on X

Art Costello: That’s what it’s about.

Tom Matzen: Absolutely. Oh, this is fantastic. I’ve really enjoyed this, thank you, Art.

Art Costello: I wanted to give the audience your information. I’m going to include it in the show notes, but I wanted to get your, I see you’re putting it up on the screen.

Tom Matzen: Yeah. The best way to reach me, especially if you’re interested, our nonprofit is called Entrepreneur Empowerment Institute, ao the URL is entrepreneurempowerment.org, and then if you go /scholarship, you go to a hidden page where we explain the program and show what it takes to apply, it takes about seven minutes to watch a video, and then it takes about 10 minutes to fill out the forms. If someone’s interested, anyone tuning in, as long as that page is active, that means we haven’t given away a thousand scholarships still. At this point, we’re loving it so much we might do another thousand after this co’z it’s just such a cool model. I love it. And it’s so fascinating to see people that are experts in this field, Art, their reaction when they say you’re giving away your most popular program, are you nuts? Like it’s just fascinating to see how their brain melts down. And by the way, in doing so, it’s been economically rewarding to us way more than we thought it would be, way more than we thought it would be. We knew it’d be good for business because people would fall in love with it, and get lots of results, make some money, they want to refer us to people and do other things with us. We knew that, but way more than we ever imagined, way more. So it’s a very cool strategy. And that’s also something, if you’re tuning in and you’ve got wisdom and knowledge, you need to get it out there. You need to get out there, whether you sell it or give it away, but get it out there in the world. Doesn’t do any good if it’s sitting inside your brain. 98% of business people say they have a book inside themselves. Yeah, well, guess what? Here’s a hint. Get it out.

Art Costello: Anything that’s inside your head and stays there is merely a thought.

“Anything that’s in your head and stays there is merely a thought.” -Art Costello Share on X

Tom Matzen: If you’re my age or your age, it’s the thoughts that are decaying, and those brain cells are dying at a rapid pace so you better get it out before those particular brain cells die. And you go, what was that idea again? We got to do that, we got to do that. And that’s not just people our age, that’s people at any age. Wisdom is wisdom. Wisdom is wisdom. I actually think that it’s not about wisdom, it’s about perspective, perspective. What’s perspective to me is the knowledge to know what to do and the wisdom, to know what to do in what order, that’s perspective. And that’s what people, to me, are paying for. They pay for your perspective. What to do all the steps, but you could Google anything today and get a hundred thousand a million pages on any topic you want. It’s crazy, right? So the knowledge alone isn’t going to get you anywhere, you also need to build a sort it out and say, well, in this order, you need to do this. And then in this, and then you do this, and you do this.

“Perspective is the knowledge and the wisdom to know what to do in what order. Knowledge alone isn’t going to get you anywhere. You also need to sort it out.” -Tom Matzen Share on X

Art Costello: This has been awesome. I’m sorry we’re going to have to wrap up, but I want to say this before we do, wait for part two of this interview, there’s going to be a part two.

Tom Matzen: Love it. Well, we’ll see if art applies for the scholarship and he puts it in a practice so we can impact more people. I love this. This is really powerful. It would be a fun strategy session to talk how we could apply this. So the offer stands there. Definitely reach out if you want to talk hard on that separately. And thank you everyone listening in, I know a podcast world, it could be one person right now or it could be a thousand, whatever it is, you’re working to make your lives better and you’re going to make other people better, so good for you.

Art Costello: Tom, it’s been a pleasure and I really want to thank you. And the audience says, you know everything will be in the show notes and we’ll have it all there so you can get a hold of Tom and get a hold of the scholarships that he’s offering. I’m going to encourage you on it and don’t keep it inside. Become a doer and make it happen. Heather White, go ahead and take us out of here. And everybody knows where they can get a hold of me, Art@expectationtherapy, websites, expectationtherapy.com. Thank you everyone for tuning in, see you next week. 




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